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Getting Old Stinks.

scrapsandsass

scrapsandsass

Oh Ricky you're so fine ...
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
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I'm not sure if any of you have had to deal with aging parents or grandparents and all of the craziness they have to go through, but I'm about ready to strangle someone. I have medical power of attorney over my grandma, but I don't really know exactly what it means legally in the situation she's in right now.

My grandma is almost 96. She lives on her own and is totally independent. She has no major diseases and is fairly healthy. But she does have problems with chronic urinary infections, and was given a 23 day course of antibiotics by a clinic, which left her with a bad bacterial infection (C-diff), that can be deadly. She was in the hospital for two weeks and then discharged to a rehab facility to regain her strength. That was the day before Thanksgiving. It is a brand new facility, and really beautiful, but the care is not what I thought it would be. :/

The facility is basically holding her hostage, and I'm not sure what to do about it.

They won't give us a discharge date or a clear indication of when it might be. My grandma is frustrated and wants to go home, but they aren't letting her. When she asks about going home, she is always given some nebulous answer like "a couple of weeks" but no one will be more definite. Friday, I was irritated and asked the "care manager" about it and she gave me the same runaround. I'm not sure what they are waiting for because she is able to get around on her own and do what she needs to do. I took her out Friday and did errands with her, and she was fine. They have said before that she doesn't have anyone living with her, so they don't want to let her go home... which is not their business or responsibility.

They are annoyed with her because she doesn't want to socialize or eat in the dining room and/or participate in activities. They forced her to go to the activity room on Saturday because they were having an open house and wanted everyone to see the image of old people having fun. She doesn't want to do the activities because she just wants to go home.

She's told me that they tell her she can't get out of bed or go even go to the bathroom unless someone is there to help her, so she doesn't even want to deal with it. Then they call her non-cooperative. They seem to be understaffed or something because if she asks for something, it can be hours before they get it to her (like toilet paper).

She said it is like being in prison, except when you are in prison, you at least know your release date. She has threatened to leave on Christmas and not come back. When she's told them that, they threaten her and tell her that if she does it, they will report her to Medicare, who will then not pay the bill, and she will be responsible for all of it. And one guy told her that they did that to him, so she's freaked out.

I'm getting ready to go up there today and tell them that I need to have a discharge date and a written plan of what they are going to do before discharge. It makes my stomach hurt because I am sooooo non-confrontational. I'm also worried that I might explode when I'm there and that wouldn't be good for anyone. But it is ridiculous. They would keep her there forever if they could. Medicare and her supplemental insurance will pay for up to 100 days, and she feels like they are going to try to keep her that long just to milk the insurance money.

I've called our county's senior services ombudsman this morning and am waiting to hear back from him and what he says. I'm also close to calling DSHS and filing a complaint, but at the same time, I worry about complaining when she is still there and helpless. She called me last night and said that she had gotten diarrhea, and frankly, at this point, it wouldn't surprise me if they caused it so they had an excuse to keep her there longer.

Has anyone ever had to deal with something like this or know of anyone who has had to? I feel like I'm totally in over my head. And of course waiting for a call back is totally frustrating because I want answers now. :furious
 
Can you call Medicare? I would call them and tell them this part for sure! "She has threatened to leave on Christmas and not come back. When she's told them that, they threaten her and tell her that if she does it, they will report her to Medicare, who will then not pay the bill, and she will be responsible for all of it." I would also ask Medicare what their policy is, and let them know that the center won't give you a release date, and ask if she qualifies to be able to go home, and just have an in-home nurse stop by to check on her. Or if you are close enough, mention that you will stop by to check on her.
 
oh Kim, I hear you and feel for you.

I worked as a health advocate for the national health service here in the UK, for 5 years.
By English Law, you (having power of attorney) can take her out of there even of she still unwell. You can choose where to take her.
Obviosuly if there is endangering of her life they can take you to court and put an immediate order for her to be kept.....

I am 99.9% sure they want the money.

I think you need to talk to a medical lawyer (not sure if the ombudsman here is the same to yours?) and get all your strength together and confront them. If she doesn't want to be there and you, your family think she would be better home, there is where she should be....

and yes, getting old totally stinks... :(
Huge hugggzzz hope all gets sorted soon, give her a hugg from me too.
 
She can totally leave AMA (against medical advice) but I don't know what financial repercussions that might bring, but it does sound like the money is all they care about. I hope you're able to get some answers & get her home ASAP. Good luck!
 
I too would recommend calling medicare and talking to them about their policies and also informing them that she is well and ready medically to go home yet they are refusing to release her. Also is the on staff physician also telling you this? I would make sure I am there to talk to her physician and if her primary care physician has privileges at this facility I would request he/she go in and see her and give you his/her opinion on release. Aside from that i would also request that she receive a second opinion from another physician who is not affiliated with the facility since their on staff physician is saying she is not ready to go home and you have doubts about the validity of that diagnosis. I would insist that someone sit down with you and share her plan of care with you. Tell you exactly why and what is keeping her admitted at this time then ask what the care plan is to getting her well and discharged. This is something that all hospitals and care facilities have to have. I would speak with the case worker on her case and tell them your concerns as well. If they are unable to show you her plan of care then I would contact the insurance again and inform them that they have no plan of care and no reason for keeping her admitted. If all this still doesn't work I would consider calling Adult Protective Services in your area and explaining the situation to them as well as contacting the news in your area.
Now on the other side my mother n law had a bladder infection and for many people like myself who gets them monthly they can be a pain but not life threatening in any way. When my mother n law got one it put her in the hospital like your grandmother. She also got a secondary infection and she got to the point that she was literally unable to walk more then 8 steps without stopping and sitting down she was so ill. She began having heart palpitations and shortness of breath as well. My mother n law I know is not as old as your grandmother and is in good health otherwise so this was a huge change in her health and it took her over 6 months to feel better. She was hospitalized over 2 weeks and was only allowed to go home because her husband is there with her. They were afraid because of the weakness that she would fall and injure herself. I'm not saying that this is the reason your grandmother is not being discharged because quite frankly it sounds very suspicious to me why they are holding her. But, I do implore that you make sure your grandma is absolutely ready to come home medically and not just emotionally.
As for the medicare not paying her bills I do believe I have heard this before. Have I ever seen it happen no, but I would not put anything pass a government insurance plan. I do believe all insurances have a fine line that states if you do not follow the recommendations of your physicians they have the option of not paying for continued care. I'm not trying to scare you but i would look into it and make sure she is not putting herself in a financial burden if she were to walk out.
Good Luck girl and keep us updated please.
 
This is horrible. It completely sounds like they are holding her hostage and just want her there for the insurance money. I really hope that the person you called for advice can help. What is wrong with a system where you have to be scared to make your own decisions for your family and loved ones? We shouldn't have to let stupid insurance rules dictate what we want to do! I'm getting all fired up for you! Keep us posted and stay strong! You fight for the rights for your sweet Grandma and don't let anyone push you around! Hugs my dear!
 
I'm so sorry Kimberlee! This has got to be so frustrating and they seem so unhelpful, and greedy. They aren't looking out for her best interests at all! I hope you've spoken to someone, and will post an update soon! Hugs!!!
 
Good grief, I've never heard of such a thing! Once my Dad was ready for a care facility it was obvious to everyone that he was never going home again (dementia), so I have nothing to offer in terms of advice, but my first and foremost thought is where is the Dr. in all of this? How terribly frustrating for you!
 
What a nightmare! I would want to know what the "medical cause" is for staying ... have they given you that? Urinary tracts due to C-Diff can often be things acquired from hospitals! If the antibiotics are doing their job and there's not something else going on ... they should be able to give you an idea. Do you think it's just a general idea that "at 96 she should be in a home and not on her own" type of thing? Which is BS. My grandmother is in her 90's and still in her home too. Gosh, she would be miserable in a LTCF home. That much I know ... I feel for you both!!! Good idea to contact Medicare or senior services ombudsman (as you are doing). Let us know what you find out Kimberlee. So sorry!
 
No advice but just wanted to pop in and send you a virtual hug, Kimberlee.
 
I'm so sorry! Sounds like you are on the right track with advice like calling Medicare and the ombudsman, but I do know that Shelli is right, if you check her out AMA then insurance won't cover the bill. So you do need to get the admitting doctor to sign her out appropriately. They should have a care coordinator that you can speak with. You could request a transfer to another facility if they don't think she is stable enough to go home, but you are unsatisfied with the care.
 
Wow, Kimberlee. This must be so frustrating for you! Have you also tried going through her primary care physician - or one of the doctors responsible for her care while she was in the hospital to see if they can have her discharged? It definitely seems they should not be able to hold her against her will. I hope you have a resolution soon! prayers and hugs.
 
Thanks, ladies!

After venting about this, I sent a strongly worded email to the facility. I was afraid that I would get angry/emotional or start to cry if I talked to them in person. Also, with email I would have a record of my communication. The care manager called and told me that she was going to give me an update. So she said that obviously my grandma was making progress and that they wanted to set up a home visit so we could go and show them how my grandma gets around at home. That is scheduled for next Tuesday.

It sounds like *maybe* they will let her out by the end of the year (as long as I keep on top of them). I don't want to rush things because I know it is important for her to be strong and able to be on her own. I just want to make sure they are doing what they need to do. I'm sure that I will have to help her out more with shopping and other things around the house, but she is one of those people who do way better at home. The last time this happened, she seemed kind of frail and depressed when she was in rehab, but the minute she got home, she perked up and improved exponentially. Just going to the assembly at Kennedy's school yesterday made her feel a lot better.

The ombudsman office called me yesterday and she also called the facility. I told her that I'd gotten an update from them the afternoon before, but she wanted to call them anyway. Of course the care manager called me immediately after talking to the ombudsman (even though I'd seen her in the hall yesterday) to tell me that we were still on track for the home visit and that OT was working with my grandma on balance issues and that they were going to have her show them how well she could maneuver around the kitchenette they have there. Apparently the other day, they were trying to get her to do some stitching/sewing. She informed the guy in no uncertain terms that she was "beyond her sewing years and had no need to practice that." :giggle

At least there is some progress and they know that the officials are paying attention, so that is good.
 
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LOL about the sewing! She sounds like a hoot! And ... it sounds like you most certainly have them on their toes now! Good going Kimberlee!!! Fingers crossed for her to go home soon!
 
Glad to hear there's some progress being made & things are starting to move in the right direction. I suspect she may just blow their minds when they see her on her home turf.
 
So glad to hear that you have made some progress. I hope things stay on track for the end of the year.
 
I'm so thankful that you've made headway and how lucky she to have you fighting for her! Your grandma reminds me very much of my great-grandma! She was very independent, very opinionated and would have been extraordinarily depressed if she had had to be in a rehab facility. She stayed home until she was hospitalized just days before she passed. She too was in her 90's and on her own! Far too stubborn to be told what to do. I hope she is home with you soon! You sound like a wonderful caretaker, who is more than capable of overseeing her care!
 
It sounds like there is hope! I agree that you need to stay on them! Keep us posted and hoping all goes well!~
 
YAY for some progress. I've been thinking of you and her. At least she has some sass left in her. Goodness 95 and they want her to sew? That's what's grandkids and kids are for! Glad to hear the good news and thanks for being such an encouragement this month.
 
So happy to hear you are getting some response now! Sometimes you have to push a little harder then you feel comfortable doing, but it is what it is when it comes to taking care of our loved ones. Hugs to you and good work looking out for her.
 
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